Interesting take; works for me.

If a zygote has a soul and is considered to be a legal person, then I want to be able to take a tax exemption for my unborn child as soon as I can demonstrate that my wife is pregnant. Why wait for birth?

witnit, Paul's account of himself ascending to the third heaven in a vision is not evidence of the body being a mere container. (just FYI) - it is traditionally interpreted to mean that he had a direct experience of uncreated realities. the 'Third Heaven' is a reference to the Zoroastrian understanding of the heavens, meaning he was probably speaking to people familiar with those traditions and used 'the third heaven' as an allegory for his experience.

Also, scripture does not interpret scripture, so to use Genesis to describe that 'breath' makes a living soul also creates a large series of problems and contradictions. 'breath' is the same word as 'spirit' in the original languages that the Bible was translated to (Greek for the LXX and Hebrew for others) So what distinguishes a living soul is not being literally depicted in that passage. The Breath of God is his Spirit. What it is saying is that our soul exists because of the spirit of God.

Personally, I think that the states should decide (or even localities if so desired) about abortion. I would prefer it remain illegal except for life-threatening situations, but it's more to the spirit of the actual laws written at the time to treat the states as actual deciders and not just as subordinates of the fed.

Also, try this
http://www.orthodox.net/fathers/exacti.html

To get an idea of how to interpret the text of the Bible. The most important books in the Bible are the four Gospels and then the Acts, (which represent the 'new Torah'.) then followed by the Epistles and the Psalms (which are interpreted esoterically) and then likely the Torah and Prophets, Histories, and last the Revelation.

But then again, you may interpret the text as you wish (especially in this post-modern world) and are free to do so.

But there will be some dude like me who will come along and remind you that there are real guidelines for the interpretation.

Sorry, River C. I can't prove it to anyone but myself, but I've been to the third heaven. You can leave your body. It is a container.

I know this from direct personal experience. If I wrote it down as gospel, I suppose someone would believe me, but since I have nothing to prove and am not interested in followers or creating a religion, I will continue basing what I know on direct personal experience.

For more, read my posts on How the Mind Works and Uncomfortable Truths.

Wit, you misunderstand me. I do know what you're saying. What I'm saying is a warning about using personal experience as one's only guide.

There are signs on the road for a reason. Please read them.

You could also read 'The Place of the Lion' - if you haven't already.

Or you could read this:

Christ the Eternal Tao. There is a great warning in there about pure intellection.

I don't use personal experience as my only guide. But when there is a conflict between what my intellect (mind) tells me and what my direct experience tells me, my tendency is to go with direct experience. (After critically examining it with my intellect...)

You see, too many people want me to read their texts. And then listen to their authorities who are supposedly experts in interpreting those texts. I'm happy to read texts, but "I" am the authority to determine how those texts relate to my spiritual life.

As it should be.

And I do not try to convert others to my spiritual beliefs. Why? Because there is no foundation for others based on MY experiences. Obviously, they can only be a spiritual foundation for ME. I have no business trying to convert others to MY beliefs.

I am always amused at those who try to convert me to their spiritual beliefs. They somehow think that if I read THEIR texts and listen to THEIR authorities, I would be convinced of THEIR spiritual beliefs.

As if they have any clue about MY personal relationship with God.

I take full responsibility for that and do not expect anyone else to take that responsibility, or even have a CLUE about God's plan for me.

God is bigger than any religion, and my personal relationship to Spirit and God is my foundation for my understanding and practice. Not any other authority or text.

Hope that makes sense.

Hey Wit,
Kudos to you for taking on this subject. I like the first breath criteria for when life begins, but I also have a problem with it. It's not real clear at what point in a pregnancy when breathing is possible. Most research I've seen says it can occur five months into term and possibly four. There have been cases where a women in her third trimester would go in for an abortion by saline injection. The fetus came out and started breathing. The saline solution only worked partially, so, the doctor had to strangle the baby to meet his contractual obligation. The mother and her family, obviously horrified by the ordeal charges the doctor with manslaughter. Also, if a doctor causes a miscarriage during ANY point of the pregnancy, he's personally liable. The definition of when life begins that you gave is fine as a spiritual definition, but doesn't translate well to a legal definition. It's an interesting problem, but unfortunately a terrible one for politicians to solve.